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Post by parzival on Oct 20, 2012 13:33:25 GMT -5
Finally seeing some pushback on pizza (though I don't see any non-hostiles yet in on it). I almost wish the masons were a third-party hostile, because they'd be doing great up to now.
However, he did just hand the scum a short list with his partner on it. Hopefully scum will realize that you can't confirm 4 people and out 1 scum in under 5 Days. I suppose they might imagine he had the merc once, but it's the best lead so far.
I'm sure the Masons are accepting storyteller as non-hostile and don't mind helping him out if they think he can help town in return. He seemed willing to make such a deal already. So far I think only myself and MHaye[?] were cautioning about the dangers of a Riddler.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 22, 2012 10:08:20 GMT -5
Finally, can we just take a moment to appreciate how everyone is kind of giving storyteller his win condition on a platter? If I'd made his role Hostile like it was in Arkham 1, the game would be just about over. Yep. Although it's hard stopping a win condition when you don't know about it. Especially when it's something players do through the normal course of play.
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Post by Pollux on Oct 22, 2012 20:04:38 GMT -5
Finally, can we just take a moment to appreciate how everyone is kind of giving storyteller his win condition on a platter? If I'd made his role Hostile like it was in Arkham 1, the game would be just about over. Yep. Although it's hard stopping a win condition when you don't know about it. Especially when it's something players do through the normal course of play. Yeah, but The Riddler was included as a possible role, and it IS a game using past roles. I guess not enough people have been around long enough to remember Arkham or care about the possibility.
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Post by Pollux on Oct 23, 2012 13:20:57 GMT -5
1. You can still act toDay, it's a new cycle, if you so choose. I will clarify now, however, that the lynch is the first thing to resolve, so if you choose to Day block and are lynched, you will not block anyone because you would die first. That's for clarification. What I said on the scum board. As I said, lynch is the first thing to resolve. So askthepizzaguy being lynched is the first thing to resolve, but in accordance with JustBeingGinger's power, the lynch is being altered to askthepizzaguy being jailed instead. Except dizzymrslizzy is attempting to block JustBeingGinger. But I said the lynch resolves first, so before dizzymrslizzy acts, the entirety of the lynch action occurs, which includes it being altered to jail instead of lynch. JustBeingGinger's power isn't an active power, it's a pardoning. Sonuvabitch. I'm giving myself a headache.
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guiri
New Member
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Post by guiri on Oct 23, 2012 13:40:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I see your predicament. The lynch is not really the first action to resolve, it's: - vote related powers - governor powers - lynch
Would a vote booster be blocked by dizzy's block?
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Post by parzival on Oct 23, 2012 13:40:57 GMT -5
Given the way you stated the rule to scum, it makes sense, Pollux. I don't know that I would have caught the implication that if the lynch resolves before powers, JBG's role has to be outside of 'powers' to work, but it's consistent.
What happens if the Judge/Jury/Executioner gets killed while pizza's in jail? Is he released, or executed at the end of the next cycle? The ninja would have been good to keep around for this.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 23, 2012 13:57:31 GMT -5
My rule of thumb for resolving powers is that they if the order of operation changes the results, choose the order that doesn't make a power useless. At a basic level, powers that affect other powers need to take place "first", or else they become useless.
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Post by catinasuit on Oct 23, 2012 13:59:43 GMT -5
My 2 cents. All Day powers should be resolved before the Lynch occurs in the same way that all non-lethal Night powers usually occur before the NK's are resolved.
It's going to be really unfair on the scum as they are blocking a power.
This one is headache.
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Post by Pollux on Oct 23, 2012 14:18:21 GMT -5
Note to future hosts: if you ever host a game with complicated role scenarios, check all resolutions before sending out PMs. If I'd included "this power is unblockable/unalterable" in the Executioner PM, this headache wouldn't even been an issue. The scenario I'm thinking about is this: let's put the two roles up against each other. Let's say JustBeingGinger pardons dizzymrslizzy, but dizzymrslizzy blocks JustBeingGinger. Does JustBeingGinger pardon dizzymrslizzy first, which puts her in jail and neutralizes her block? Or does dizzymrslizzy block Ginger, thus sealing her own fate and getting herself lynched? In my opinion, it'd be the former. My rule of thumb for resolving powers is that they if the order of operation changes the results, choose the order that doesn't make a power useless. At a basic level, powers that affect other powers need to take place "first", or else they become useless. At first thought, I'd equate the pardoning power to the equivalent of a mass roleblock, meaning that it overrules any other powers and goes first regardless. My 2 cents. All Day powers should be resolved before the Lynch occurs in the same way that all non-lethal Night powers usually occur before the NK's are resolved. See, I was actually thinking the opposite. At Dawn, everything resolves before the kills occur. At Dusk, the lynch occurs before anything else. In my mind, if Colby gets lynched, his attempt at recruiting doesn't go through. Or if Sister Coyote gets lynched, she doesn't get her investigation results. -- Every time I host, something like this happens. This is what I get for being ambitious!
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Post by catinasuit on Oct 23, 2012 14:22:04 GMT -5
My 2 cents. All Day powers should be resolved before the Lynch occurs in the same way that all non-lethal Night powers usually occur before the NK's are resolved. See, I was actually thinking the opposite. At Dawn, everything resolves before the kills occur. At Dusk, the lynch occurs before anything else. In my mind, if Colby gets lynched, his attempt at recruiting doesn't go through. Or if Sister Coyote gets lynched, she doesn't get her investigation results. -- Every time I host, something like this happens. This is what I get for being ambitious! You see, in situations like this, I would allow the recruit to go through and the investigation to go through. But, although the player may have carried out an action, they would not get the opportunity to report any result from the action.
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Post by wombat99 on Oct 23, 2012 14:26:35 GMT -5
As much as I hate, HATE, to say this - I think it's only fair that Dizzy's block go through. Also, Pollux, I don't know if this is relevant to your decision process, but if you will recall - when I died bodyguarding Pizza on Night 2, there was also a question on the order of the way actions resolved and you ruled in favor of Pizza living on. For what it's worth.
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Post by Pollux on Oct 23, 2012 14:50:57 GMT -5
Also, Pollux, I don't know if this is relevant to your decision process, but if you will recall - when I died bodyguarding Pizza on Night 2, there was also a question on the order of the way actions resolved and you ruled in favor of Pizza living on. For what it's worth. That's true. Although that was more of a question of kills resolving simultaneously than a specific order. But yeah, after you guys pointing everything out and deep thought about it, I'm gonna go with the block resolving first and stopping the pardon. That resolution causes the least amount of headache overall, I believe. It makes sense given the context of the blocking power, and the overall resolution order makes more sense for blocking -> pardoning/voting -> lynching -> other actions simply for the fact that if the block doesn't resolve first, then dizzy can't block vote boosting powers either which is a good chunk of possible Day actions as well, so....yeah, okay. Thanks for your help, guys.
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Post by catinasuit on Oct 23, 2012 15:03:30 GMT -5
You're Welcome
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Post by Pollux on Oct 23, 2012 15:47:58 GMT -5
Peacekeepers are close to meeting their objective. It's going to be tight. Cookies is almost definitely going to use the kill redirect tonight in hopes of getting to the Peacekeeper win condition (only one death tonight would equal 18 going into Day Six), so with a lynch, that puts them at 17 which means the Peacekeepers have to hope for a crosskill on Night Six so only 2 deaths occur. Or Cookies, if she's smart and survives, can redirect any blocks (if there are any left) to Inner (if he's still alive) ensuring a maximum of two kills.
It's funny, if things hadn't lined up and the scum hadn't used their unblockable kill the same night as the mass block, and dizzy hadn't blocked Ginger, they'd only be one deathless night away from succeeding on that front, too.
It's gonna be tight, but they may pull it off.
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Post by Pollux on Oct 23, 2012 15:59:19 GMT -5
Aaaaaaand Laurie just outed that Colby's power is a Day power instead of a Night action. No idea why she would do that, unless she's not planning on becoming Town.
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Post by Pollux on Oct 23, 2012 16:20:48 GMT -5
Everything's going belly up for Town after pizzaguy died.
-Sister Coyote should have waited until Day to claim second Mason. -Colby reveals his power is a Day power. -Laurie revealed she's being recruited.
Scum can really obliterate town's win chances now, although the other hostiles are looking pretty good if they can nail the other scum.
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Post by parzival on Oct 23, 2012 18:37:07 GMT -5
Scum have a much better position now than just a Day ago. Assume dizzy goes down tomorrow (or tonight), although Ginger could be on the block too, scum are down to two. SP will either get counterclaimed and die or has to manufacture a new one if Cookies dies first. So it's down to sinjin. Sister C vetted her as non-hostile, which is excellent. Storyteller might actually be able to uncover her fake role name by chance; that's the only way I see her being exposed. One of the other random kills might hit her, though.
Team Death is looking pretty good to take it, because I don't know that anyone commented on the Death of Rats reveal.
As for non-hostiles, I'll guess the Merc gets out alive. Storyteller might win in a couple of days, and the PK's have an even chance. I think peeker gets NK'd eventually, although he doesn't end up getting lynched.
One question on the Peacekeepers wincon. Suppose deadpool is set to resurrect on Night 7 for some reason. If the day started with one less than the half needed, but somehow there's no lynch/deaths before he comes back, would they meet the wincon as it becomes Night?
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Post by parzival on Oct 23, 2012 18:40:42 GMT -5
Another question: Does the lucky quarter's power extend to Rich Beckman as long as he keeps it? It says he can't 'use' those items but the power seems to depend only on possession.
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Post by parzival on Oct 23, 2012 18:50:10 GMT -5
Cookies is almost definitely going to use the kill redirect tonight in hopes of getting to the Peacekeeper win condition (only one death tonight would equal 18 going into Day Six), so with a lynch, that puts them at 17 which means the Peacekeepers have to hope for a crosskill on Night Six so only 2 deaths occur. Cookies prevents Lightfoot's goal Tonight. If Red fails to find him, Lightfoot will go for him N6 and that could be the break the PK's need.
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guiri
New Member
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Post by guiri on Oct 25, 2012 11:59:30 GMT -5
Laurie's turned down recruitment? Did she give a reason? And Meeko, worried about losing which power?
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